On Wales
How did you enjoy the last weekend of the pool stage. Did Wales save their best for last?
I’m not sure that Wales saved their best for last against Georgia, the match that I enjoyed the most was the victory against Australia, which I think has been Wales’s best performance at the tournament so far.
I felt like that was a far more disciplined result (compared to Georgia). We played with more structure in our game and executed a couple of good tries and scored from them. We showed signs (in that game) that have probably been missing from Welsh rugby for some time.
The Georgia game was always going to be difficult. It was always going to be a very physical game – they are a difficult team to breakdown. They have some strong ball carriers within their side and they were always going to stay in the game until the eightieth minute. Wales will be very happy with their bonus point win.
Twelve months ago, if you’d had said that Wales would have topped the table and played the rugby we have done, I would have bitten your arm off. I’m very pleased with the performances so far, but it counts for nothing if you can’t produce in the quarter final.
Nobody could have seen Wales getting nineteen out of a possible twenty points in the pool stage. You lost to Georgia less than twelve months ago, what is it about Warren Gatland? How does he always seem to bring the best out of Wales at World Cup tournaments?
It’s strange isn’t it (how Wales performances improve at a World Cup)? It probably hasn’t been the best twenty-four months for Welsh rugby with what’s happened in the WRU and what’s happened with some of our results in the Six Nations and friendly matches.
When Gatland came on board, I was happy because I know exactly what he brings to the table. He exudes confidence and he gives that confidence to his players. He makes you feel that whatever you’re doing individually and as a team is to the best of your ability.
I remember when he took over after the 2007 World Cup and the 2008 Six Nations was his first competition, bearing in mind that Wales were a team that were knocked out by Fiji in the pools stages, so we weren’t feeling too positive. We didn’t feel like we were one of the best teams in the world. He came into the training camp with a real buzz about him. He was really positive. He went up to the boys individually and told them how good they were, what’s good in their game and where they can improve.
Collectively, he said: “Look, you’re one of the hardest training teams I’ve ever seen. You’re one percenters are really good.” What he meant by that was not about scoring tries, it was about determination, getting up off the floor when you’re tired and getting back into your defensive line. Hitting rucks and breakdowns and running until you can’t run anymore. He made everyone feel really positive and good about themselves in training.
Two or three weeks into training, he started talking about Grand Slams. He was talking about beating England at Twickenham. He was telling us what we needed to do to win the Grand Slams. The lads were looking at each other thinking ‘this guy’s either nuts or he believes in us so much that we need to start believing in ourselves more’. That’s what we did. He makes you train harder, and he makes you feel better about yourself. He got us going into games feeling really positive and with the confidence to beat anyone. Having spoken to some of the lads in the Welsh squad, that is exactly what he has done again. He’s said “It’s been a tough couple of years for Welsh rugby. No one has given us a chance in this World Cup, let’s go out there and prove them wrong. We’re a good team. We’ve trained the hardest and worked harder than anyone else, let’s do it.” As a player, you then go into the tournament thinking to yourself ‘perhaps we can do this’. That’s what we’re seeing with Wales at the moment.
Physically, we’re as good as the best teams in the world. Individually, we have some superstars sprinkled within the squad. Everyone looks very confident. It’s great to see.
High praise for Gatland
On competition in the Welsh squad and keeping standards high
There’s a lot of competition in the Welsh squad and everyone is challenging each other. In any team sport, especially at this level, the players know that you’re one bad game away from being dropped. The fella wearing the same number on his back in training wants your job; he wants your jersey. He might be your best mate, but he wants to play for his country. That competition is healthy.
When you look at the players that didn’t make the squad, Alun Wyn Jones and other big, big players that played for Wales for a long time, it gives those younger players the confidence and the belief that they are good enough to play for Wales on this stage.
Dafydd Jenkins, he can be the next Alun Wyn for Wales. Warren will have told him, ”Alun’s not here because you’re here.” That will give him a massive confidence boost. Competition in the squad is fierce. Christ Tshiunza, Will Rowlands and Adam Beard want that jersey too.
The competition keeps you hungry. It keeps you wanting more. I think the Wales squad has a good blend of youth and experience. Players like Lee Halfpenny and George North are in there, and George North has been playing some good rugby again. He’s a great leader and he’s being kept on his toes by some promising youngsters that want to take his place in the team which is bringing the best out of him as a player.
Gatland has got the blend of the squad right. There are some fantastic individual players that are playing on the top of their game at the moment. Louis Rees-Zammit was brilliant at the weekend. Jac Morgan has been superb for the last two years. The blend is right, and I think that is something that Gatland enjoys.
He likes to have his jokers in the squad, players that perhaps don’t play that much rugby, but keep morale high and the boys motivated. People like Andy Power back in my day. He was a brilliant player, but just a fantastic guy to have around the squad. When you’re away from home for such a long time for these World Cups, you have to get that squad balance right. The dynamic between the players and the coaching staff seems to be working and I’m very happy about that because I’ll be in Marseille watching Wales in a quarter final.
It's a long tournament as you mentioned. What are the guys going to be doing between games? How do you keep the focus high, because with Wales, it feels like they’ve been playing knock-out rugby since week one.
The games come thick and fast in the pool stages. I know they had a week off before the Georgia game, but that would have given the players a little bit of time to spend with their families, which is nice. France is a little bit closer to home, which is great for the players because it makes things for their families easier, and it gives them more freedom (to see them). A lot of the boys have young children and Warren encourages his players, when there’s an opportunity, to spend as much time as they can with their families.
Jac Morgan’s family live near me, and I know that they have been back and forth to see him. I think you’ve got to get that blend right as a coach and Warren has done that. Speaking from my own experience, sometimes you can get a bit of cabin fever during tournaments. It can be like living in a gold fish bowl, so you need to be able to spend time with familiar faces and he’s allowed the players to do that by giving the players the option of going home for a couple of days. You can tell that it’s a really happy camp and its having a positive impact on their performances. Everything that Warren is doing seems to be working.
You touched on some of the challenges that Welsh rugby has faced over the last few years. What kind of an impact do you think the teams performances will have back home?
I think that there are a still some issues in Welsh rugby that need to be addressed. Our performances at this World Cup will paper over a few cracks, but there are issues with funding in the regions. We’re losing some of our best players to the French and Japanese leagues while trying to build grassroots and local rugby.
I think everyone knows about the issues that we’re facing, but Wales getting to a quarter-final in a World Cup brings a feelgood factor and positivity to Welsh rugby. I’m fed up with discussing negative things about Welsh rugby during interviews, so it’s nice to see what Wales have done in this World Cup. The Six Nations wasn’t a happy place for Wales. The mauling that we took off South Africa before the tournament wasn’t very nice to talk about. Losing our best players to leagues all over the world because we can’t afford to keep them wasn’t very nice to talk about. Wales getting to a quarter-final by winning every game while putting a smile back on a few of the fans faces has been great to talk about. The longer that continues, the longer that Wales can stay in the competition, the happier the Welsh public will be. The fans are loving their experiences in the World Cup so far – we’ll take that at the moment.
In 2002 before you had your big break in 2003, you spoke about not seeing a future for yourself in international rugby and admitted you were frustrated. Do you think it’s harder now for eighteen, nineteen and twenty-year-old players coming through in Wales and England? What kind of vision do you think the game needs to have to make sure that we’re developing players and also not losing them to leagues in France and Japan?
2002 was difficult. I had played for Wales in 2000 and then I was dropped from the squad. I was told that I wasn’t big enough or good enough to play, so that was a really frustrating time for me. I was going away trying to work on my size and strength and became too big, too quick and got injured. I was in a vicious circle where I couldn’t get fit. I did contemplate giving up the game because I didn’t think that I would ever get fit again, but eventually I started to find some middle ground. I was never going to be sixteen stone or six foot tall, so I needed to work on my game and concentrate on what I felt that I needed to do. That’s what I did and thankfully I didn’t retire, kept going, showed that resilience and got back into the squad.
There was a lot of pressure from outside, and I haven’t read a newspaper since those days. The papers were full of criticism which added a lot of fuel to the fire in terms of people’s perception of me as a player, but I dug in and came back better and stronger. I do think that it’s probably more difficult for youngsters now with social media and the pressure of pleasing millions and millions of people. There is a focus on being the best and competing against others to impress people. I certainly wouldn’t have liked that kind of attention back then. I’m glad that it wasn’t as bad when I played as it is now. What we tend to do in Wales is when we see a good young player, we put them on a pedestal. The pressure on these youngsters is huge. There are people out there that don’t want some of them to do well, which is human nature sometimes. It’s not easy for these youngsters. If you look at the likes of Louis Rees-Zammit, he’s got it all. He’s a fantastic footballer, good rugby player. He’s six-foot three, dark hair, good-looking. The attention that he’s getting at the moment is incredible. It’s tough. Fair play to him, he seems to be able to handle it pretty well. I used to get a bit of attention back in the day, but nothing like some of these lads are getting. The way that they’re handling it is magnificent, but, unfortunately, some players can’t. It can be overwhelming, and it can have a negative effect on your game. I certainly don’t know how I would have coped.
We’re trying to fix Welsh rugby. It’s not an easy fix or something that will happen very, very quickly. I think it will take three or four years before we start to see the benefits of what’s happened at the moment. Budgets are being cut and our regional clubs can’t pay big wages anymore, so our more experienced players with the bigger contracts are having to go to France or Japan. One of the positives of those guys moving on is that it should give more opportunities to younger players who will be blooded in tough games early in their careers. That’s how the regions are going to have to adapt in Wales and perhaps it will unearth a few future superstars earlier than expected. It’s going to be tough for these regions over the next few seasons, but the optimist in me says it’s going to be OK a little bit further down the line.
Wales take on Argentina this weekend in the quarter finals. They had a poor performance in their first game against England but did better this weekend against Japan. In recent years they’ve beaten the All Blacks and South Africa – how do you fancy Wales chances and what do they need to look out for against Argentina?
I was very disappointed with Argentina’s performance against England. I don’t think it was a fantastic England performance. I think George Ford had his cape on that day and saved the day to be fair. Argentina made too many errors and played without any attacking edge. They were beaten quite easily in the end, but they have improved as the competition has gone on.
I watched them against Japan, they’re a very physical side both forward and back. The back row is incredibly strong and hard working. Their breakdown area is very fluid if they can get the ball out. I think they are up there with New Zealand in terms of a team that can recycle breakdown and rucks the quickest. That’s always dangerous. They are aggressive in everything that they do and that won them the game against Japan. It was close at times, but Japan couldn’t deal with Argentina’s raw power. That sprinkled with a bit of Carrera’s magic, Argentina looked very effect.
I’m expecting a physical game played at a high tempo. Wales had to improve their breakdown before the World Cup. Argentina turn over the ball a lot and get very involved in that side of the game, so Wales will have to be on their toes in that respect. What we know is that Wales will be able to match Argentina physically. Wales pride themselves on their physicality and they pride themselves on their defensive responsibility. They are quite happy to let other teams have a bit of ball and sap their energy.
We’re scoring tries now. We couldn’t buy a try in the Six Nations. Louis Rees-Zammit, he didn’t touch the ball for sixty minutes or whatever it was and then his first three touches he scores sixty yard tries, which got us out of jail a little bit, but we’ve got that in our armoury now.
Jac Morgan and Tommy Reffell, who was brilliant against Georgia, they are coming into form. George North is playing his best rugby for some time. We’ve got a couple of injuries. It will be interesting to see how fit Dan Biggar is…there are a couple of decisions that Warren will have to make.
I’m feeling confident. No disrespect to Argentina, but I’d rather play them then an Ireland, New Zealand or South Africa at the moment. We’ve got to be happy with the way that the draw has worked out and should be looking ahead to the semi-final. If we can do what we did against Australia and play direct, look after the ball, and stick to the game plan, then I think we will be ok.
I’m confident of a Wales win on Saturday afternoon. The beauty of working on a World Cup is that you get to see a lot of the games. We made a lot of changes against Georgia, it probably wasn’t our best performance, but we would have lost that match twelve months ago – we did lose that match twelve months ago. Winning with a bonus point, that was incredible because we were under so much pressure for large periods of the game. I think that’s the difference now with this Welsh team. We have the resilience to go to difficult places, but the team always keeps its composure. This Welsh team doesn’t panic. They get their hands on the ball and put points on the board. I think it will be a similar story on Saturday. I’m expecting it to be a similar game to Georgia – it will be a battle, a blood bath. The back row are going to be going hammer and tongs at each other. There’s some big backs on both sides who like to carry the ball…it should make for a great match. I just think that Wales have a little bit more.
Carrera’s magic will be a threat
On Australia
Wales beat Australia comprehensively in the pool. This is the first time that Australia have missed out on the knockout stages. Eddie Jones brought in younger players, getting rid of the likes of Craig Cooper etc. In hindsight, was that the wrong approach? Has that cost them?
Cooper and Hooper are probably two of the most experienced players in the game and, over the last few years, two of the best players in the world. A World Cup isn’t won by fifteen players on a field, its won by a squad. Sometimes there are players within that squad that don’t play much rugby. Even if Cooper and Hooper were part of that squad and barely featured, their experience and knowledge would have been absolutely massive to the likes of Donaldson and the younger players. There were a lot of players that had never experienced a World Cup and how difficult it can be. I just think their experience alone would have made a massive difference on and off the field.
It's strange to see Australia not doing well. When I was playing, Australia were always in the top three – they had some unbelievable players. Australia didn’t have that presence this time around – there wasn’t anyone in the team that had that aura.
Players like Samu Kerevi and Marika Koroibete are amazing but look at the players around them… it was a young, naïve team that didn’t have the experience to get through a World Cup. Eddie’s first mistake was not taking Cooper and Hooper who would have had such a massive impact on and off the pitch. They would have inspired the younger players in the team.
It seemed like Australia looked lost. When Wales got on top in that game, it didn’t seem like they knew how to get back into it. I was looking at the match and I couldn’t see what Australia were trying to do to win the game and they were very lucky against Portugal. It was too little too late, and they looked like a broken team. Eddie Jones looked broken. I feel for them because they were always the best in the world in my era. It’s quite sad to see what has happened to them at this World Cup.
If Eddie sticks around, he’s got a massive job. The Lions tour in two years and hosting the World Cup in four. How can he rejuvenate Australian rugby?
Eddie has a huge job on his hands. The preparation will be starting already for the Lions Tour and the World Cup, they’ll be thousands and thousands of fans going over there, so they’ll want to do well. Their a very proud nation and will be proud to be hosting those tournaments. It’s not ideal preparation, getting bundled out of a World Cup. Eddie has received a lot of criticism – there was all the talk about the Japan job and a lot of negative press. Whether Eddie remains in the job or goes, Australia have got their work cut out. It’s quite similar to where Wales were a few years ago.
I think there is a lot of rebuilding that needs to happen in the squad. I look at the Australian squad and think that they have the nucleus of a very good side. They have some young players, so you need to get the blend right by adding some experienced guys in there. They will need to make some changes to personal in the coming months. It is going to be interesting to see how Eddie approaches the next phase in Australian rugby. Does he carry on and keep arguing with the press or does he change his approach and try and get the media behind him? Rugby Union isn’t the number one sport in the country, they are trying to grow the game, but getting knocked out of the World Cup at the pools stage isn’t going to help matters. They’ve got a lot of work to do. The next twelve months are really important for Australian rugby.
Eddie Jones under pressure
On Ireland vs New Zealand
This is the greatest Ireland team of all time. It feels strange saying that when you think of the teams with Paul O’Connell and Brian O’Driscoll – they were unbelievable players. Their results speak for themselves. They are the number one team in the world at the moment for a reason. They are one of the only teams that could go to New Zealand and win the series. Their confidence will be through the roof.
They put Scotland to the sword. They completely bullied Scotland in a ruthless performance. Ireland look like the team to beat. For me, they have been the most impressive team at the World Cup. We’ve seen New Zealand beat teams by ninety points at this World Cup, France have done the same, but Ireland have been brilliant week-in, week-out. They don’t have to play pretty rugby all the time, some of their play can be lethargic, but they have the wingers to hurt you and they are so clever in how they play. They are bamboozling teams at this World Cup. You have to take your hat off to Andy Farrell and his coaching team.
I picked New Zealand a couple of months before the World Cup as my winner. South Africa put them to the sword, they lost their opening game to France and you start to think ‘that doesn’t look like a New Zealand rugby team,’ but they build again. They are pushing teams to the side now and scoring points left, right and centre. It’s a huge quarter-final.
I think this game has the potential to be the game of the tournament because it’s the two best teams in the world going head-to-head. Ireland will be full of confidence because they beat New Zealand recently and are on a journey at the moment where they look unstoppable.
Ireland have been a joy to watch. Sexton is pulling the strings yet again. The amazing thing for me is that Sexton is still doing the same things that he was doing ten years ago. His game hasn’t changed because it’s so effective. He’s like a fine wine, he’s getting better with age.
The one big question mark with Ireland is that they’ve never been past the quarter-final stage before. How much will that affect them going into this match?
The jinx of netting getting past the quarters will definitely have been spoken about in the Ireland camp. I think that they will be concerned to be playing New Zealand, a team that a lot of people put down as favourites. They’ve bounced back brilliantly after losing the first match against France and have really put teams to the sword. They are playing with a lot of confidence.
Ireland, with Farrell and Sexton and the maturity they have, they will be focussed on getting a result. They will know that they are good enough to beat New Zealand and they go into the match as favourites. I think they will have the same approach as they did against Scotland, and they will be confident that they can win this game and the World Cup. That is the kind of attitude they have at the moment. I think they will be too strong for New Zealand.
New Zealand are allowing teams to attack them and then smothering them when they have the ball, but Ireland are too smart for that. They play in the right areas, their set pieces are good and their ball carriers are really strong. I’ve already mentioned Bundee Aki, who is probably the player of the tournament at the moment. James Lowe with his kicking options… I just think they are a great team that is full of confidence.
The voodoo of not getting past this stage will be gone. This is the best Ireland team that I’ve seen in my lifetime.
England vs Fiji
This is a really difficult game to call. It’s bizarre that England have limped through the pool stages, but you don’t win a World Cup at the pool stage. England struggled against Samoa but had the experience that they could use off the bench, and they dug in when the going got tough.
The one thing that England have had to do in this pool stage is work hard. They’ve won every game, so you have to be positive about that, even if the performances haven’t been there. They could have been heading home, but they are in the quarter-finals so the fans should get behind the team and be positive.
I think this is a match that England would have taken at the start of the World Cup. I’m sure England will be ready for it.
Fiji are a team that has turned the corner. They’ve got a good structure and discipline. I think their defence have improved and they are able to stop teams. In attack, they’ve got some superstars that are playing in a unit, not as individuals. They’ve beaten Australia. They limped through against Georgia, it was an awful performance, but they did just about enough to win it. Then Portugal last night…It blows my mind how they can play some of the best rugby in the tournament and then put on a display like that. Portugal deserved it at the end. Even my wife called me about the Portugal result! It’s great for rugby.
Fiji are in a quarter-final against England. England haven’t played particularly well at this tournament so far. If Fiji can play with their structure and a little bit of composure, then I think they are more than capable of beating England. Their performance against Samoa would have given them confidence, but England would have watched them against Portugal and will be feeling confident. I honestly don’t know what is gojng to happen in this game. That is the beauty of World Cup rugby.
We know that Fiji can turn it on if they want to. On the flip side, if England get their organisation right and manage the game a little bit better, then they will be the favourites by a country mile. Whatever happens, it’s going to be entertaining.
There’s one selection decision that sparks more debate than most: Ford and Farrell. Is it either or, the two of them together or is it Marcus Smith who has looked sharp off the bench. What should England do with that selection decision?
It’s difficult isn’t it. I think that Steve Borthwick has changed his mind on who he’s playing between Ford and Farrell several times, which is something that you do under pressure. Not knowing if Farrell’s best position is ten or twelve has probably been England’s downfall for sometime.
I’m a big fan of Farrell at ten. If he plays there then you can then change things in the centre, but it’s about getting that right and being consistent with the team selection.
I’m also a big Marcus Smith fan. It would have been great to see Marcus play more rugby at ten in the build-up to and during the World Cup but the problem is that when you’ve been playing in spits and spats and find yourself in the quarter-final, it’s a big call to then use the player. I always enjoyed a nice, fast flowing game as a player. If that’s what England are trying to do, then Marcus Smith has to start. The problem is that he hasn’t been given that many opportunities. He has been ripping it up for Harlequins. His footwork and his pace are brilliant. Is he a complete ten like Ford and Farrell? They’ve got that experience where they know how to win big games, but the only way for Smith to get that is to play in these types of games. We all want to see if he can cut it on the international stage in the games that matter.
I would love to see Marcus Smith get more game time as an international player. I would love to see him get used to playing at a higher standard of rugby. He definitely has it in his locker.
Borthwick has a lot of work to do. He will want to finish this World Cup in style and go as far as he can. Afterwards, he needs to make a decision on who his first choice ten is and stick by it. He needs to get his structure in place.
Nayacalevu could lead Fijian upset
France vs South Africa
Antoine Dupont has been declared fit for France, which is a massive boost for them. He is the probably still the best player in the world and France have this knack for producing really good scrum halves, generals.
Dupont captains his teams by leading from the front. He very rarely makes mistakes and is a good ball carrier. He’s strong defensively and with the ball in his hand. His forwards trust him immensely and he gets the backs firing at a hundred miles an hour, which is the sign of a class player. He’s a player that has an aura about him and he has it all. He always puts in a performance and is up there with the best players in the world.
France would have been worried about getting him back. I just hope that he is fit and isn’t just playing through pride because he loves his country. If Antoine Dupont plays and plays well, then France beat South Africa. Simple as that.
It is going to be a great battle all over the field. The battle between the fours, two of the strongest backs in this World Cup are going to go toe-to-toe and both teams have some stardust in the back line. This is going to be a classic. I think this would have made a fantastic World Cup final. You can be the best team in the world and go out in the World Cup final – that’s the quality of the World Cup. It’s brilliant for the spectators.
Both sets of fans will be chomping at the bit because this is going to be a war. It can’t not be a good game. It has the makings of a classic. This is the game that I’m really, really excited about.
It’s going to be a fantastic weekend of rugby.
Dupont's availability crucial for the French
Reflecting on your own World Cups, how do you think this tournament has been?
If I compared it to when I played in the World Cup, the quality and the level of the rugby is far better now. I think teams are more structured and organised. I think players are better because of the modifications and improvements to training and facilities. The standard of coaching and the science has improved.
In 2007, despite what happened – I’m actually in Nantes at the moment and being back at that stadium gave me shivers – despite that, I enjoyed the World Cup. On a personal level, I thought I played pretty well in the games and loved the experience. It was nice to share it with my family. It is the best competition to be involved with as a rugby player – it doesn’t get bigger than a World Cup.
If you look at this World Cup, the standard of player is definitely better. Props, Hookers and Second Row players are popping up in the centre of the field and can distribute with both hands. The game is far more complete now.
If this Irish team were playing in 2007, they probably would have gone on and won the Word Cup. You could say the same thing about this French team.
When I see the Welsh guys in training, it brings back great memories. I know what they’ve been through, good and bad, but they’ll be thinking about going as far as they can in the tournament. Maybe they can go one step further and be the first Welsh team to get to a final. It’s been a tough few years for some of these players, so they’ll be enjoying every moment of this and so will the fans. I’m willing them on to get to the semi-final. I am quietly confident.
Who is going to lift the trophy?
I said pre-World Cup New Zealand, but being honest, I’ve changed my mind a few times while I’ve been out here watching the games. I said New Zealand so I’m going to stick with them.
You can never write them off. They are capable of doing things in matches that other teams can’t but they have got a massive match against Ireland next.
This Irish team has really impressed me, they have for some time. If I was going to change my mind, I would have changed it to Ireland. I do believe that, on the day, if New Zealand get it right and Damian McKenzie has been brilliant…I’m going to tick with the Kiwis.
